Monday, January 07, 2013

How Much Will It Cost Tim Hudak To Unwind The Green Energy Act?

You thought cancelling that gas plant was expensive?  Here's PCPO MPP Monte McNaughton, representing Lambton-Kent-Middlesex:

…we realize that when we make the commitment, we’re not going to build them, if they’re not built. So scrap the 50,000 projects that are in the queue.  We realize that there is going to be a cost, our lawyers have told us that there are opt-out clauses and we sure as hell are going to pay those out because it’s going to be cheaper to pay them out than to honour contracts for 20 years. So we’ve been clear that we will not going ahead with however many projects are left, if we’re fortunate enough to form the next government after the next election. But clearly there will be a cost associated with that, but it will be cheaper to buy them out than to honour them for 20 years.

Secondly, I guess we’re not going to know the entire extent of all of these contracts signed until if we form government, until we actually get in and take office. That’s why we’ve been clear that in the 24 hours after the election, we’re going to call for a moratorium. But we are going to call for a moratorium almost immediately so we can figure where the hell things are at and how deep a hole energy has gotten us into.

So, despite McNaughton's claim in the first paragraph, the Tories don't really know whether their option is the cheaper way or not, because they don't really know the size of the bill they'll have to pay.  But their lawyers must have given them some estimates.  So, a simple question to Mr. Hudak: how many $1,000,000s d'you think this promise will cost to keep?  And, incidentally, how many jobs in the green energy sector will it cost?

19 comments:

Paul Kuster said...

If you take a hard look, the job cost will be negligible. These are mostly contractors ( construction phase) who , if they're any good, will find other work. They're probably no more than 5000 who rely on this program directly. The cost otherwise if this program would continue, will reach $1 billion per year in subsidies and paying other jurisdictions to take our excess power. We have enough installed generation capacity now that is considered green, that we don't need this program at all.

bigcitylib said...

So 5000 jobs lost? Nice headline, that. Also, the paying of other jurisdictions goes both ways: we pay them, they pay us on other occasions. Its a bit like monopoly money, and in any case when the Ont. economy ramps up, that power will be used here. You want Ontario to plan for an infinite recession, no growth future?

Paul Kuster said...

When I say 5000, I'm being kind. You'd be surprised what they decide "green" jobs are. It's laughable to think the "Green economy" will pull us out of any recession. Truth be told, about 1500 can be accounted for although their numbers are dwindling as more plants close and the WTO ruling really takes effect. If you care to look, our peak demand for hydro was Aug 2006, ( pre-recession) at 27,005mw. We haven't come close since and with close to 30,000mw installed ( not including renewables) capacity, our much awaited liberal-led recovery will not be requiring wind power at all.

John Matthew said...

Do you deny that the oil spill is the result of not investing enough in green energy?
PPI Claims Made Simple

Paul Kuster said...

I'm not sure one could make that link,we could talk about the consequences the oil co's face when stuff like that happens and whether that's sufficient. I wish Big Wind energy co's ,for example would be subject to similar consequences.

bigcitylib said...

Similar consequences for? Wind doesn't spill, as far as I know.

Paul Kuster said...

Syncrude was fined $3 million for the deaths of 1600 ducks that died landing on a tailings pond. Wind turbine developments are issued TAKE permits by the MNR for killing a variety of bird species including species at risk and bald eagles. On Wolfe Island, 2 green jobs consist of going around gathering up the bird and bat carcasses. That's the disconnect at play here.

bigcitylib said...

Oh god we're not going to get into the "bird blender" thing again are we? If you want to save birds and you have a cat that you let out, strangle your cat. That's about one turbine per annum's worth of birds saved right there. And syncrude was fined because it broke the law.

Paul Kuster said...

I've yet to see a cat take down an eagle so your cat argument is specious. I'm surprised you think that gives wind turbines a pass. Your assertion of the number of birds killed by turbines are woefully low. The main concern is that the bird species at risk, are having their habitats protected, except when wind turbines come calling. Example being the removal of an active bald eagle nest in Haldimand co. being removed to make way for wind turbines over the weekend. Cats,cars, buildings don't kill bats, but turbines do, by the thousands. Again I say, whatever the technology, if it's "green" it gets a pass.

Ontario Highlands Friends of Wind Power said...

If you search through the State of Canada's Birds http://www.stateofcanadasbirds.org you'll find that turbines aren't mentioned.

Paul Kuster said...

Jody Allair , who is a biologist, with Bird Studies Canada has a big problem with turbines. We all know the bias you, Jutta and your group have.
BCL, killing endangered species or messing with their habitat is also against the law. With the issuing of take permits, wind turbines skate free of such litigation. If this were a fossil fuel co. or a nuclear facility, there'd be a much bigger outcry. But this is Nextera, oh wait, they're a big energy company that is also involved with nuclear, oil and gas.Still crickets...........

dwl pics said...

Paul, thank you for bringing up Bird Studies Canada. I have to ask, did you use them to look up Bald Eagles?
Then you already know they are NOT endangered. Have rebounded well after the early 80's, have set new records in 2011 for number of offspring, territories inhabited, and number of producing nests.
Unfortunately, there is another menace effecting the breading patterns of Bald Eagles in Ontario. From Bird Studies Canada;
"Bald Eagles in southern Ontario appear to have shortened life spans compared to other populations. A possible explanation for the shortened life span of Great Lakes eagles could be heavy metal poisoning. In the last few years, several Bald Eagles found dead in Ontario have had elevated levels of both mercury and lead in their bodies."
So it's not wind turbines, nor DDT, it's now mercury. And where does that mercury come from Paul?
Coal plants are the single largest producer. The US releases over 42 tons every year using coal to produce electricity. Ontarios coal plants are no better.
So in essence, you should be thanking NextEra for protecting one of the species you and yours "claim" to care about. Thanks to wind energy you can now thank farmers for more then just "feeding cities", you can thank them for powering them also.

Dan Wrightman said...

dwl pics This is definitely one of the more dense comments that I have ever seen posted on this topic. "you should be thanking NextEra for protecting one of the species" is this guy for real or is he just another no name wind industry troll Either way he comes across as just another phony enviromentalist pretending to care about wildlife. If he had really read the 2011 Bird Studies Canada report on Bald Eagle he would have known that there were ONLY 57 Bald eagle nests in Southern Ontario in 2011. If Bald Eagles have a shortened lifespan how the hell does removing one of their active nests protect themÉ Why did Nextera move the access road instead of chainsawing the Bald Eagle nest? Is it because Nextera figured it was cheaper to move the nest instead of the road? By the way MNR sought out Bird Study Canada biolgist Jody Allair`s opinion before issuing the removal permit. Allair told the MNR that the nest should be left alone and the turbines relocated elsewhere. Guess it does`t matter because this government cannot say no to the wind industry and the wind industry couldn`t care less about Bald Eagles or any other wildlife.

Paul Kuster said...

So Don, lets address your claims here.
When dealing with claims that appear to come across as a certainty, that we shouldn't question, I look at the wording. When I see phrases like;
" A possible explanation" or "appear to have" or the best one, "Ontarios coal plants are no better".
How you can conclusively state that the silver bullet will be wind turbines defies any measure of logic.
In 2006. .5 metric tonnes of mercury were emmitted by all Ontario coal plants. that includes the ones in Thunder Bay and Atikokan. With only a few units left at Nanticoke and Lambton,mercury emissions from the few coal units left, is negligible. You can do the math.
The EPA found levels of mercury present from motor vehicle operations/ emissions which include lubricating oils ( containing the highest amount) that are even present (600 litres)in industrial turbines. To specifically point the finger regarding mercury poisoning in eagles to coal plants is simply irresponsible.

bigcitylib said...

Man you guys are really banging on about a nest nobody was using, that's getting replaced by a brand new nest (or the same nest moved to a new location).

Paul Kuster said...

Just banging on the hypocrisy. It would be really swell if the true costs were discussed regarding the GEA. Haven't even touched upon the economics of turbines. Makes Adscam, E-Health and Ornge look like tiddliwinks. Go ahead, pick a conservative scandel, they're no better.
This Green Energy thing however is really grotesque.

Dan Wrightman said...

This is getting silly, obviously some commentators are having a hard time understanding the issues. The nest was being used. The eagle pair were seen flying around it the weekend it was taken down. Mating season for Bald eagles starts this week that's why Nextera wanted it gone. This particular nest like all other Bald Eagle nests was large, around 6 feet across. A bald eagle can't just build another nest like this in one day and time is running out. It's far from a given that this Bald Eagle pair will have a succesful nest this year. It would be interesting if someone could explain how Nextera, a Florida based coal and nuclear genaerating company became experts at building Bald Eagle nests and picking their locations here in Ontario. One would think that the construction and design experts in succesful Bald Eagle nests would be the Bald Eagles themselves. Regardless this has been a couple of really bad days for the wind industry. They have lost credibility with thousands of urban dwellers who formerly supported wind energy. Destroying Bald Eagle nests is terrible public relations and it has shocked alot of people that trusted their government would protect endangered species from developers. The wind industry doesn't seem to have any response to the outrage being directed at them and their usual platitudes about "cats and windows kill birds too" have little effect. This is very wrong and they have been caught red handed on camera.

Dan Wrightman said...

10 years ago a farmer in Norfolk county was fined $10000 for removing trees AROUND a Bald Eagle nest. The MNR just let NexTerror DESTROY one in Norfolk for FREE. OUTRAGEOUS http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2013/01/09/mpp-wants-answers-on-eagle-eviction

Paul Kuster said...

According to Turtle Island News, Six Nations are shocked that the Bald eagle nest was removed and the tree cut down. The Haudenosaunee Development Institute director was outraged that Nextera would commit such an act. Hey BCL, maybe you could ask the interim director Hazel Hill,why all the fuss over an (my vote for the most moronic statement yet) "empty nest".