Sunday, November 01, 2009

Tories Within 5 Votes Of Repealing Gun Registry

NDP MP Niki Ashton has now officially gone over to the dark side. According to the Coalition For Gun Control, there were three NDP and one Liberal in support of Conservative MP Candace Hoeppner’s Private Member’s Bill C-391 as of late September. So now we have four. If Anthony Rota isn't the Liberal the CGC was thinking of, then the Tories are within four votes of the Bill's passing 2nd reading on November 4th.

You want to seal a Harper majority, then let Bill C-391 pass. Tories will get a two % bump as supporters angry with them over whatever return to the fold; Libs will lose similarly as people wonder what use the party is anymore. I don't know what will happen to the NDP; they may be able to justify the move with reference to Hegel's dialectic.

45 comments:

Skinny Dipper said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Skinny Dipper said...

There are quite a few NDP MPs from northern Ontario. Lots of hunters live in the northern ridings. They hunt NDP vegetarians visiting from downtown Toronto. Watch out, Zoƫ!

Volkov said...

I bet the Liberal who is in support is Larry Bagnell, the MP for Yukon. He has consistently been against the long-gun registry.

CfSR said...

You can add Nickel Belt MP Claude Gravelle to the blood on their hands crowd I'm told.

The irony of all this is that the Tories will run against these New Democrats and Liberals as the party that repealed the gun registry. Their adds will point to Layton, Ignatieff and the Bloc's coalition to keep the gun registry.

The Tories won't say thank you to Nathan Cullen, Niki Ashton, Claude Gravelle, Anthony Rota and the two from Thunder Bay (so far identified).

The the Tories already have all of the anti-gun registry as the ballot question vote. That's not going to change with this vote.

So why would opposition MPs support a measure that (a) the Tories will use as a club in the next election against those very MPs; (b) will cost them support from supporters - especially women worried about domestic violence in their or their friends' home; and (c) have, as a consequence more hidden guns and more dead women and children killed in their homes?

CanadianSense said...

When is listening to your constituents the "dark side"?


The Urban MP's who think making rural citizens fill out paperwork and register their weapons is a benefit to society are FREE to vote against this private members Bill.

People are mobilizing and their MP's are being asked to make a decision.

Next election the Urban MP's can rationalize, demand Joe Farmer/Hunter is a real problem in the gun violence in those Big Cities.

After all criminals are still filling out form and paying their fees for their guns right?

CanadianSense said...

CFSRA,

if those MP's break from their party to support their local citizens they will inform their voters in the riding.

The CPC are correct to inform us Urban MP from the other parties are blocking "real reform" and prefer to play games in legislation.

They prefer to go in camera and hide their flip flops.

I am told crime is going down and we are safe, why are we asking the farmers and hunters to pay and support a make work program to make you feel safe about a problem that does NOT exist?

Or do we have a crime problem?

Are those illegal guns from the US being brought into Canada from farmers and hunters in Canada?

Are those criminal gangs who using those illegal gun going to use a registry?

Focus is a serious problem for the left.

Stop blaming rural Canadians for a small organized criminal activity in large urban centres.

Tax residents in large urban centres where "guns" are used in violence.

Won't be difficult to pull those stats, I look forward to an Urban MP propose a $ 50 tax on each city dweller to help register guns in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and signs reminding residents to register their guns.

Maybe we can give the EAP sign installers more work.

Ti-Guy said...

Time to for Dick Cheney to shoot CanadianSense in the face.

Robert McClelland said...

I think Conservative MP Ed Holder might vote against it due to the fact that he represents an urban riding in London where there's a lot of concern over gun crime right now.

The Jurist said...

With respect BCL, I'd argue that you have it exactly backwards. The Cons keep the rural grassroots fired up by saying people have to keep donating/voting so that they'll be able to repeal the gun registry - take away the target, and I suspect a lot of that support will start to erode.

Which is why the Cons are pushing the repeal as a private members' bill which takes a longer, more circuitous route to pass rather than as government legislation: they'd rather see an election before the bill passes than actually throw away one of their main motivators.

CanadianSense said...

Jurist is bang on!

This wedge issue has no logical defence.

It is was a poor policy decision, that was enacted by some left leaning urbanites to make themselves feel better after a massacre in QC.

Reminds me of signing on Kyoto when Liberals were in power, a policy without doing a single thing to implement or make any substantial changes to help the environment.

Correction: they did run CBC commercials: 1 ton challege.

Ti-Guy said...

take away the target, and I suspect a lot of that support will start to erode.

I'll believe that when I see it. It doesn't take much to keep the rural voters fired up...any issue will do, really. The Conservatives manufacture them all the time. If they can be fired up over their right to shoot critters, anything is possible. In the past, the Conservatives have used the conflict in the Middle East, for example; an issue more remote from the lives of rural Canadians one can scarcely imagine.

But it is heartening to see the NDP uphold the ideal of the rational voter though. Clarity is indeed an advantage for those unburdened by the expectation of ever having to govern a large and diverse country.

Ti-Guy said...

There are quite a few NDP MPs from northern Ontario. Lots of hunters live in the northern ridings. They hunt NDP vegetarians visiting from downtown Toronto.

They also bait dumps to bag their pointless trophies.

Ah, the noble hunter...

Robert McClelland said...

The Cons keep the rural grassroots fired up by saying people have to keep donating/voting so that they'll be able to repeal the gun registry - take away the target, and I suspect a lot of that support will start to erode.

In addition to what Ti-Guy said is the unmistakeable fact that the gun registry is just the beginning of the effort to dismantle Canada's gun control laws. If conservatives are successful they'll just move on to the next phase. So keeping the registry actually acts as a guard protecting those other laws.

CanadianSense said...

RM,

the MP's are free to vote in keeping farmers and hunters filling out paperwork or turning them into criminals for refusing to fill in the additional paperwork.

Do you have a study that shows criminals are filling out forms and paying this additional fee?

Thanks, I can't find it.

RuralSandi said...

Hmmm....can the long gun supporters guarantee that a farmer and/or hunter won't get stressed out, drunk and have a domestic problem and not shoot someone - the cops called in without knowing if they have a weapon?

A neighbour of my dad a few years ago - avid hunter, farmer had a jealousy problem. He shot his wife. She was innocent of any of his jealous claims about her - she's dead.

Yup - register your dog, your house, your car....but not a weapon.

You know, with all the H1N1 issues, Afghan war, global economics, etc. - how important is the gun registry? It's important to Harper to try to change the channel on the failure of the important issues.

CanadianSense said...

RS,

how would his registration "fee" have saved his wife?

Filling out forms and submitting fees, lowers domestic violence?

Did your story include depression and alcohol?

Introducing a single story does not dispute the facts this registry why and when it was introduced, it is simply bad policy.

Robert McClelland said...

CanadianNonsense: Do you have a study that shows farmers and hunters are being turned into criminals for refusing to fill out some additional paperwork?

Ti-Guy said...

Hmmm....can the long gun supporters guarantee that a farmer and/or hunter won't get stressed out, drunk and have a domestic problem and not shoot someone - the cops called in without knowing if they have a weapon?

I was looking a while back for a breadown on gun homicide/suicide/violence in Canada to get a sense of which types of guns are doing what to whom and in what context, but then remembered that homicide rates in Canada are the highest in areas of greatest gun enthusiasm. Coincidence? I think not.

The registry is not only a tool for the police but sends these people a clear message...your gun is a privilege. Use it wisely, or we *will* pry it from your hands, dead and cold, if need be. If you don't like that, then move to Alabama.

Heh. That oughta fire the wingnuts up.

CanadianSense said...

RM,

too funny, you want me to make a case for your talking points.

If those farmers and hunters are NOT in compliance with registering and paying the fees, the Gun Registry sends them?

http://www.lufa.ca/quickfacts.asp


Contrary to what the Liberal government and the media have been telling you for the last five years, the police do not support the mandatory registration of between 7 and 20 million legally owned rifles and shotguns. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police supports the government’s ill-conceived plan but not all Chiefs of Police support it, nor do the majority of police under their command. The Canadian Police Association (CPA) supports the government’s billion-dollar boondoggle but not the majority of police officers whose views they are supposed to represent.

Every poll ever taken of front-line police officers shows opposition ranges between 75% and 100%. For example, 100% of the 19 police chiefs in the Province of Saskatchewan are opposed to registry, 91% of the serving RCMP officers in Saskatchewan are opposed, as are 76% of the members of the Saskatchewan Federation of Police Officers.
http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzgpress/990628.html

"The RCMP investigated 88,162 actual violent crimes during 1993, where only 73 of these offences, or 0.08 per cent, involved firearms." In 1996, Statistics Canada reported in Canadian Crime Statistics that there were a total of 291,437 crimes of violence. Of this total, there were 121,291 violent incidents where weapons were involved but only 6,375, or just 2.2%, that involved firearms. Of the violent offences where firearms were involved, 74.9% involved handguns [almost all unregistered] and only 6.9% involved rifles and shotguns.

CanadianSense said...

TG,

Perhaps you should move to a country where increased state control and the privilege is not available for law abiding citizens.

Goodluck TG, don't forget to check your views with the state before posting.

Gayle said...

Wow - relying on quotes from a 10 year old article to prove your point?

Surely, if the majority of rank and file police believe we should scrap the registry. Breitkruz could produce a poll taken this decade at least. Instead he relies on anecdotal evidence.

You are going to have to do better than that if you want to prove your point.

In any event, this:

"Introducing a single story does not dispute the facts this registry why and when it was introduced, it is simply bad policy."

is actually an opinion. You might want to learn the difference between the two.

Registering your gun is no different than registering your car, or your dog, both of which costs you money.

The government knows where I live, where I work, how much I make, the name and occupation of my husband, which political party I donate to and which charities I support. They also have access to my medical information, how many times I go to see the doctor, and what medications are prescribed.

They know I have a dog. They know we have two motor vehicles in our family.

If I owned a gun they would know that too.

If the government were truly concerned about the safety of its citizens there would be no questioning the value of a gun registry.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle,

In Alberta the most corrupt provincial government right? You may have E-health records, not sure bringing that up in Ontario holds any water....(hint bad comparison)

Ignorance is bliss and the lack of hysteria and misinformation about the long gun registry is EPIC.

Since 2006 the CPC have STOPPED collecting the fees!

The LG Registry has NOTHING to do with public safety. Repeating a myth, will not change why it was introduced.

Repeating this "lie" will not stand up in Rural Canada.

How many rural ridings do the Liberals currently hold?

An article from 1, 2, 10 years ago if truthful is no longer valid in your mind. Does that mean all your evidence for AGW is no longer valid? (another example of faulty logic on my use that article)

The LG registry is not working and as long as the CPC are voted for they will NOT allow those millions of law abiding citizens to be used as a scapegoat by the media and the apologists in support of bad policy.

Crime is down than connect the dots.

Best of luck Gayle with your dog ownership story. Most of us believe you own cats and many of them.

Urban cities are more than welcome to post signs about the regulations and laws pertaining to lawful gun ownership.

Don't forget to ask those criminals to keep submitting their applications.

Ti-Guy said...

Perhaps you should move to a country where increased state control and the privilege is not available for law abiding citizens.

Like the one you're from, NonCanadianNonsense?

Gayle said...

Crime is down, and has been declining steadily since the early 1990's. Coincidently, that was when the LPC came into government. Shortly after that we started the gun registry.

Now you are relying on 10 year old polls. I wonder what the polls said about the conservatives in 1999. Do you think they may have changed since then?

I love it when people defeat their own points. Thanks CS.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle

You suggest the Liberals are responsible for the crime rate dropping ---ROFL.

I support facts, can't find a study to defend your "tax" on rural Canadians? Crime is down despite the hysteria from Liberals who demand we need to have more taxes on law abiding citizens.

-Thank you proving you just want a bigger government and higher taxes.

Gayle said...

"Crime is down despite the hysteria from Liberals who demand we need to have more taxes on law abiding citizens."

Great. Now can you please send a letter to the conservatives advising them of same. You see, the money that we are about to spend on the pointless "tough on crime" agenda is going to dwarf that spent on the registry.

I love it when people defeat their own points. Thanks CS.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle in your confusion again how will the Federal Gov't be spending more if crime is going down?

Invent criminals to house, have the police lock up more people for a make work project?

Keep chasing those "invisible" gremlins.

Gayle CRIME rate is going down so less money is going to be spent!

Thanks for proving why Liberals suck at chess and should stop coming to a gun fight with a knife!

Ti-Guy said...

The last comment on CS's blog was three weeks ago.

Haw haw haw.

michaelharkov71 said...

........or we *will* pry it from your hands, dead and cold, if need be.

"We"? LOL Oh please. No, you *won't*. The least of all you.So save the "we" and get over yourself.

Good Lord...........

Gayle said...

By even the most conservative of estimates, costs will go up. Why? Well most people who can perform simple mathematical equations understand that if you put more people in jail for longer periods of time, you are going to have to spend more on those people. Even though crime is going down, the CPC plan will put more people in jail. That is the entire raison d'etre of their program. I am surprised you missed that point.

"Invent criminals to house, have the police lock up more people for a make work project?"

Yes, they are doing this. The more things you criminalize, the more criminals you are going to have. Basic math again.

Hope that was not over your head.

I love it when people defeat their own points. Thanks CS.

Gayle said...

"The last comment on CS's blog was three weeks ago."

He had a comment? Was it from wilson?

CanadianSense said...

Gayle

"okey dokey" innocent people are going to jail.

Crime rate is down, less criminals.

Sad when you keep refuting your own point.

Those estimates from what groups show costs going up?

It is a shame you want convicted criminals to spend less time in jail so you can save money.

Gayle your idea of saving taxpayers money scares me!

Ti-Guy said...

"We"? LOL Oh please. No, you *won't*. The least of all you.So save the "we" and get over yourself.

Just watch me, you little Sitzpinckler.

Semper Fi!

Gayle said...

"Those estimates from what groups show costs going up?"

How about Peter Van Loan (although he will not tell us how much it will go up).

Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan, who is responsible for Correctional Service Canada, said this month that the government is in fact preparing for more inmates. The service's budget for prison infrastructure has doubled since 2006 when the Conservatives took office.
Mr. Van Loan has said the government has internal estimates showing the expected rise in prison inmates that will be attributed to each new measure, but is declining to make those figures public.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/budget-office-looks-to-put-price-tag-on-tories-tough-on-crime-agenda/article1337669/

I love it when people defeat their own points. Thanks CS.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle,

bringing another knife to the gun fight.

Great study! I was shocked really.

Where are the numbers?

Too funny. Every time you post Gayle you prove why Liberals are losing all credibility.

Can't you find a study or an article with NUMBERS to make you point?

It is common knowledge after Gayle. How much.....

Gayle said...

"Can't you find a study or an article with NUMBERS to make you point?"

Check the link out. The LPC are trying to find the numbers, but the CPC are trying to hide them.

But maybe you missed the part about how Van Loan admits the budget for prisons has doubled, and that it will go up more.

And maybe you forget you claimed the number of prisoners would surely go down. I can see why you would forget - you posted that over an hour ago!

I love it when people defeat their own points. Thanks CS.

CanadianSense said...

Rofl
Gayle can't you submit a study to back up your mouth?

Blaming the CPC is so Liberal.

Holland wants budget watchdog to cost it?

Cmon Gayle this is now the third time you present a fluff piece as "evidence".

Where are YOUR numbers?

Gayle said...

You poor thing. Now that you have been proven wrong, again, you try to pretend this is about something else.

Remember, way back about 2 hours ago, when I explained to you some simple math? More prisoners mean we will spend more to house them.

Van Loan says we will have more prisoners. That is the entire purpose of the crime legislation.

More prisoners=more cost.

If you cannot understand something that simple, I am afraid you are wasting your time here. Maybe try some remedial education.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle,

Van Loan says more prisoners=more cost!

Eureka moment.

The basis of your attack on the CPC Crime Bills is Van Loan statement!

Impressive.

Gayle are you drinking heavily tonite?

Where is your STUDY or articles to back up your claims?

Liberals have $ 3 million per year to do their own research, in the 4 years you can't find a single Liberal produced study that supports your posting?

How many prisoner, how much per prisoner? If those prisoners stay in longer and cost more and repeat less do we save on them reoffending ....blah blah

Time to get the accountants from Enron and Gerrad Kennedy on the file!

Thanks Gayle for eliminating ANY doubt on reducing your credibility to ZERO on the Gun Registry as well by trying to invent "figures" and studies.

Gayle said...

Snort.

Do you find a lot of people are convinced by your tactic of ignoring facts that do not support your position?

michaelharkov71 said...

Just watch me, you little Sitzpinckler.

Um, retard? Its "sitzpinkler":

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2ADFA_enCA345&q=Sitzpinckler&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=

I love how urbane you try to seem by your sad, fake attempt at German. Only......it makes you look like a total fucking idiot when you can't even get the term correct, LOL.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle

How sad for you.

You are challenged to produce FACTS, articles, ANYTHING to back up your drivel.

Nothing but HOT AIR.

I am not shocked your pattern of "seeing evil CPC" in every topic paints your posts.

The original post was Long Gun Registry has no bearing in public safety.

You denounce my links that are factual and based on studies before the bad policy and you than quickly change to subject to other CPC Bills after getting schooled.

Won't be the first or last time your lack of facts, channel changing pattern has been exposed.

Have a great nite Gayle in blaming everything wrong in the universe on Harper.

CanadianSense said...

TG

get's it wrong and is schooled again!

Gayle said...

Snort.

Having trouble witjh that reading comprehension? Maybe you actually think everyone else is hiding their heads in the sand and pretending facts are not facts just like you are.

Thanks for the laugh. Until next time.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle

I have proven you failed to provide any facts: try two videos, one is even from the CBC.

Sorry Gayle but try to keep up, the left have no legs left on this issue. Gun Registry is the just one more example Harper is going to ROLL the left in the NEXT election.

They REFUSE to stop the CPC

http://nexusofassholery.blogspot.com/2009/11/got-yourself-gun-registry.html