Tuesday, November 27, 2007

Elizabeth May And The Nazis, Redux

Elizabeth May has once again compared Harper to Neville Chamberlain for his behavior at the recent Commonwealth summit:

There are hardly words for the scandal this represents. For the dreadful irresponsibility of the Harper government. George Monbiot said that the triumvirate of Harper and Bush and Howard blocking action on climate represented a moral failure more culpable than that of Neville Chamberlain.

And of course cranky Steve Janke is all upset and demanding that opposition leader Stephan Dion denounce Ms. May:

...if he doesn't, then he's guilty of failing the same key leadership test not once, but twice.

But before Steve gets his shorts in a knot (if they aren't permanently in that condition already) lets all remember how this played out the first time back in May. Several writers, including Aaron Wherry, Philippe Gohier, and myself took a spin through the old Hansards and found any number of Neville Chamberlain vs. The Nazis references, made by members of all the major parties. I wrote:

...I can state with near certainty that there has been at least one Neville Chamberlain analogy made in every parliamentary session back to at least 1998.

In fact, my favorite one occurred on December 14th, 1995, when Reform Party Leader and spiritual godfather to today's CPoC Preston Manning announced:

Mr. Speaker, the minister provides no rational answer because there is no rational answer.

Any government that can talk itself into believing that a separatist veto over the Constitution of Canada helps national unity can talk itself into any other kind of concession. It is the Neville Chamberlain approach to constitutional negotiation: unity in our time through irrational concessions...

I am all for laying off the Nazi analogies, not because I think they are inappropriate but because I think they're getting a little bit stale. There must be some equally hideous if perhaps slightly less famous totalitarian state/slash movement that Harper could be said to be (analogously) aiding and abetting with his climate change policy.

(Although, come to think of it, I myself am actively campaigning to have the term "climate change denier" replaced with "warmocaust collusionist", because I think that one really lays the holocaust link on thick. So I guess I am not entirely innocent either.).

29 comments:

Ti-Guy said...

I am all for laying off the Nazi analogies, not because I think they are inappropriate but because I think they're getting a little bit stale.

I'm still enthusiastic about comparisons to Nazism. People are using faux-outrage (and some degree of historical ignorance) to deflect criticism by implying that Nazism was so singular and unique that it is something that will never happen again, and that such comparisons are ludicrous (and...shreik!..uncivil). I believe Nazism is far more mundane and something that threatens to re-surface every few decades or so. Nazism is a well-recognised "brand" that gives the rest of us a handy weapon to smack authoritarians with whenever they start getting a little too big for their Lederhosen.

If accusations of Nazism send the wingnuts into fits of apoplexy so much the better; it's not like they're making any more sense when they're talking calmly anyway.

Anonymous said...

Hell, Trudeau, your uber liberal, loved Nazis.

Wouldn't even get off his motorcycle long enough to stop them.

Ti-Guy said...

That's the best you can do, anony-tard? The usual "teh fibewalz didz it first!!!1!"

Next you'll be blaming Trudeau for the Reichstag fire.

Reality Bites said...

Well I don't recall him ever denying it. ;)

Nazi's ,Tories, Same old Story... said...

If the shoe fits...

I see no problem with comaring our fascists to the Nazi's. Liberalism was meant prevent fascists and communists from taking over. Explains perfectly why the NDP hasn't formed government yet and Canadians need to be made awrae of the CPC fascists and their use of symbology to indeuce nationalistic ferveor while vilifiying a segment of the population (immigrants, liberals, gays, etc.) Once they turn everyone from these groups they get what they want. Controll of a contuntry where everyone now hates liberals, immigrants, and gays. Sounds familiar doesn't it. All they need is a camp to put them all in.

He might not be Adolf but he sure loves how they worked and white nationalism is BIG amongst the CPC supporters. Funny thing is I don't think they notice nor will the feel the same as Germans after WWII. They know whats up, we have historical examples.

Anonymous said...

Elizabeth May and the Nazis. Yeah, that's what I call the green party, too. That or Greenshirts.

Anonymous said...

http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/zjmar07.pdf

Greatest Scientific Scandal of our Time. aka The socialist money-sucking scheme. Fits in nicely with this:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2007/11/27/4689144-ap.html

Follow the money. It's all about greed, and absolutely NOTHING to do with science.

bigcitylib said...

Anon 12:34,

Speaking of Nazis, its nice to see I have a few fans over at Free Dominion. What's it like having your ass sued into oblivion?

Anonymous said...

She's a crabby loser. The less hot air coming out of her pie-hole, the better. Her ideology sure makes her an intolerant boil on Canada's backside.

Jay said...

Sounds like you just described the Reform/Alliance/Conservative party to a tee.

Your ideology views our legal system, senators, and political parties as an annoyance which needs replacement all because it doesn't suit your ideology. According to the grassroots gays shouldn't have rights, women shouldn't either, screw the natives altogether. Canada's not a world player anymore except in cases that involve war. We are subject now to the scorn of the world due to your ideology. Never mind the fact Canada has no interest in your parties extreme right ideology.

Who again is a boil on Canada's backside? Your party is more like leprosy of the entire pelvic region of Canada.

Anonymous said...

Reform always lost, why use them as an example? Over the top rhetoric chases mainstream voters away. I think the Conservatives have provided enough proof of that.

Most people can understand the two points of view. The Liberals, NDP, Bloc, and Greens think that the developed countries need to lead and the Conservative think that the large emitters in the developing countries need to be included because their emissions at this point are too significant. They are both reasonable points of view.

Pro-Kyoto proponents are fond of pulling out Harper's "socialist plot" comment about Kyoto. Why? Because it's over the top to mainstream voters and turns them off. It's the same with May's. Both of their statements are probably good to rally the base, but they're already decided. If May did anything with this statement it was to help the Conservatives appear rational on the subject. Quite the feat.

Reality Bites said...

She's a crabby loser. The less hot air coming out of her pie-hole, the better. Her ideology sure makes her an intolerant boil on Canada's backside

Seeing as this comes right after BCL's comment on FreeDominion, may we safely assume you're talking about Connie Wilkins, not Elizabeth May?

'Cuz if it is indeed Connie, I'd hate to see you get sued by her high-powered lawyer for definition of character.

Anonymous said...

Although Chamberlain was directly related to Nazis, to make a reference to Chamberlain doesn't necessarily imply the opponents are Nazis. It primarily means that you got fooled in a deal, you're a sucker, you're a pacifist ninny, that 'peace at all cost' will actually cost millions of lives, that you can't see the writing on the wall, etc.

Nazi is National Socialist Party. It seems we have national socialist parties in Canada. And many little dictator-wannabes, who would tell us how to live our lives. Now THERE'S a menace that needs to be fought back!

Socialism is a mental disorder. Liberalism is a social disease.

Raging Ranter said...

Your ideology views our legal system, senators, and political parties as an annoyance which needs replacement all because it doesn't suit your ideology. According to the grassroots gays shouldn't have rights, women shouldn't either, screw the natives altogether. Canada's not a world player anymore except in cases that involve war. We are subject now to the scorn of the world due to your ideology. Never mind the fact Canada has no interest in your parties extreme right ideology.

That's your honest opinion? Because if it is, I don't blame you for calling Conservatives "scary". The world must be a scary, terrifying place for a frightened little boy like you. Better go back to Toronto and hide.

I've always taken a certain amount of pride in the fact that progressive-types find conservatives to be "scary". It's confirmation that many of our political opponents are in fact cowards. Cowards get scared a lot.

Ti-Guy said...

You're only scary insofar as the rest of us are often left wondering if we'll end up having to kill you.

It's scary to be faced with that kind of choice, y'know?

...I don't find Conservatives like you in the least bit scary, you fucking low-class nazi.

Raging Ranter said...

You're an Internet tough-guy because you're too cowardly to face anyone down in real life. There can be no other explanation for your hostility towards anyone you perceive to be against you. You're death threats and other promises of violence from behind the safety of your computer screen are as stale as they are laughable. What are you going to do? Double-click me do death? A real keyboard jedi aren't you. I'm terrified.

Anonymous said...

> I see no problem with comaring our fascists to the Nazi's.

What fascists?

> Liberalism was meant prevent fascists and communists from taking over. Explains perfectly why the NDP hasn't formed government yet

Jesus Christ, you're comparing the NDP to fascists?

> and Canadians need to be made awrae of the CPC fascists and their use of symbology to indeuce nationalistic ferveor while vilifiying a segment of the population (immigrants, liberals, gays, etc.)

Please provide some examples.

> Once they turn everyone from these groups they get what they want. Controll of a contuntry where everyone now hates liberals, immigrants, and gays.

What a cunning plan.

> Sounds familiar doesn't it. All they need is a camp to put them all in.

Already set up. They're called Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.

> He might not be Adolf but he sure loves how they worked and white nationalism is BIG amongst the CPC supporters.

Please tell.

> Funny thing is I don't think they notice nor will the feel the same as Germans after WWII. They know whats up, we have historical examples.

Please elaborate here. I don't know what you're talking about.

Raging Ranter said...

Anon, don't tell me you expect rational explanations for any of that. There can't possibly be any. Think of the sad, pathetic world the fool who wrote that lives in. If you're not a progressive you're a nazi. Simple. What a stunted existence he must face every day, writing off a third of the population of his own country as nazis or at very least nazi sympathizers. He deserves our pity.

This is one area where I agree with progressives. Our mental health system is clearly underfunded and inadequate, given that folks like Nazi Tory Same old story are walking around, literally unsupervised.

Anonymous said...

Just heading back to the real element of this story which is Stephane Dion's leadership.

It shows real lack of leadership on Mr. Dion's part to not immediately come out and condemn Elizabeth May's disgraceful comments. The period to which Ms. May speaks to was such a dark time in our history that should not be bantered about carelessly.

Anonymous said...

Wow...
Your readership is a class act.
Face it. Invoking the decidedly most egregious 'sno-job' of the 20th century to describe Monsieur 'Arpur's approach to the climate change farce is somewhat over the top.
Ms. May makes fun of any rational person's approach to the issue and alienating those of us who wish to view the issue from a rational, detached and sober view find her screeching uncomfortable. After all, we are trying to listen to all sides of the issue and she is truly offputting.
I push a mechanical mower but I refuse to replace my 20 year old, still working Christmas lights for chinese-made low-wattage lights. I gave my kids the $50 bucks it would'a cost to replace'em.

Ti-Guy said...

You're an Internet tough-guy because you're too cowardly to face anyone down in real life.

Ah, shut the fuck up, fatwad.

Anonymous said...

I'll look at global warming seriously when politicians talk about stopping the addition of millions more carbon emitting immigrants to our country every decade.

Jay said...

"Need an example."

Small Dead Animals
Free Dominion
Joannes Journey

You know, this is a waste of my time

Let me sum it up
90% of the Blogging Tories.

When you are finish reading that read your own blog.

"What type of action are the Black Youth Taking Action planning on taking? If this nutjob has his way, they'll be killing police officers."

Anonymous said...

> Liberalism was meant prevent fascists and communists from taking over. Explains perfectly why the NDP hasn't formed government yet.

That has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Outside of ti-guy's comments, anyway.

Anonymous said...

> Liberalism was meant prevent fascists and communists from taking over. Explains perfectly why the NDP hasn't formed government yet.

Communism and/or fascism certainly came to all those provinces that elected NDP governments.

Anonymous said...

Jay, you certainly are a raving leftist loony. If you think Free Dominion is so terrible, don't ever go to Stormfront or your head will explode.

"According to the grassroots gays shouldn't have rights, women shouldn't either, screw the natives altogether."

Don't you mean that anyone who opposes giving these groups special rights and benefits is a nazi?

Jay said...

Not a lefty retard. Never voted NDP in my life nor would I ever but have voted liberal and PC. Who the hell waants a commie government?

Try again freak.

"special rights"

Nope. Just what the majority enjoys already.

Very telling though. Sounds to me you seem to think only "whites" get everything.

You are quite ignorant as well.

There is no basis for race in the first place. Only ignorant people or those who wish to discriminate for their own gain make that distinction.

You a card carrying KKK member?

Raging Ranter said...

Jay, you have a problem with that statement on the Raging Ranter? I was referring to the nutjob the social activist group known as Black Youth Taking Action had invited to speak in front of the kids. That individual has gone on record calling for the murder of police officers. Fortunately our customs personnel were alerted of his pending arrival, and he was turned back. I guess that makes our CBSA agents right wing extremists too? Like I said, the world as you experience it is one scary place.

Anonymous said...

> There is no basis for race in the first place. Only ignorant people or those who wish to discriminate for their own gain make that distinction.

LOL. If there was no such thing as race there wouldn't be race specific medication, diseases (sickle cell anemia) or the ability to identify someone's race with 100% accuracy with a speck of DNA.

The Inconvenient Science of Racial DNA Profiling

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/10/dnaprint?currentPage=all